Over the years, I've interviewed nearly 200 guests for the Become a Writer Today podcast. These days, I get pitched a lot from potential interviewees.
If you're thinking of pitching another show to appear as a podcast guest, ask yourself if your message or book is relevant to their audience. There's no point appearing on a podcast simply because it's popular.
A good podcast guest also has an actionable piece of advice to share. They'll prepare in advance and have a compelling story their audience can relate to.
Guest podcasting is a fantastic way to sell your book if you get all of this right. Readers often engage with an article for a limited period, say 60 or 90 seconds. On the other hand, a podcast listener usually stays engaged for much longer, perhaps 20 or 30 minutes.
That's a long time to hold somebody's attention.
And if you've listened to a podcast for that long, you're much more likely to buy copies of that person's book, join their email list, or perhaps purchase one of their courses.
This week's interviewee has interviewed many more podcast guests than I have. In fact, he's published over 1,000 podcast episodes since he launched the Create Your Own Life podcast in 2014.
He's also published a new book based on lessons from his interviewees called Unremarkable to Extraordinary.
His name is Jeremy Slate.
In this episode, we discuss:
Jeremy's Socials:Support the show
Jeremy: One of the big things I recommend to people is like you really need to differentiate yourself from people in your space or don’t start a podcast, because there’s too many people out there doing the exact same show and I think, for that reason, there needs to be a particular reason people will come to you over someone else and I think that’s vital.
Welcome to the Become a Writer Today Podcast with Bryan Collins. Here, you’ll find practical advice and interviews for all kinds of writers.
Bryan: Guest podcasting, can appearing on other people’s podcasts help you sell more copies of your book? And how can you become a good podcast guest for people’s shows?
Hi, there. My name is Bryan Collins and welcome to the Become a Writer Today podcast. So I’ve interviewed nearly 200 guests for the Become a Writer Today podcast over the years. These days, I get pitched quite a lot from potential interviewees. Some of the pitches are great and some are not so great. If you’re thinking of pitching another show to appear as a podcast guest, ask yourself is your message or is your book relevant to their audience, because there’s no point appearing on a particular podcast simply because it’s popular. You need to appear on podcasts that are relevant to what you’re writing about in your book.
A good podcast guest also has an actionable piece of advice to share with listeners of that show and they’ll also prepare in advance and potentially have a compelling story which they can relate to readers and listeners. Guest podcasting is a fantastic way to sell your book if you do all of this right, because when you read an article, chances are you might read it for 60 seconds or 90 seconds and then move on to something else. On the other hand, a podcast listener can stay engaged for 20 or 30 minutes. That’s a long time to hold somebody’s attention. Chances are, if you’ve listened to a podcast for 20 or 30 minutes, you’re much more likely to go ahead and buy copies of that person’s book or join their email list or perhaps purchase one of their courses.
Now, this week’s interviewee has interviewed a lot more podcast guests than I have. In fact, he’s published over 1,000 podcast episodes since he launched the Create Your Own Life podcast back in 2014. He’s also published a new book based on lessons from his interviewees, it’s called Unremarkable to Extraordinary. His name is Jeremy Slate and, in this week’s interview, he answers questions like, “Is it too late to start a podcast?” “What should you do if you want to become a guest on somebody else’s podcast?” And he gives some more tips than what I just offered. He also talks about why you may want to consider guest podcasting before you start your own podcast. And if you are considering your own podcast, Jeremy also gets into the ideal cadence for publishing your episodes and he also answers the question about how you can use a guest podcast appearance to sell more copies of your book.
So I hope you enjoy this week’s interview with Jeremy Slate. If you do, please consider leaving a short review on the iTunes Store and you could also share the show with another writer or another friend because your reviews, ratings, and shares really do help more people find the Become a Writer Today podcast.
Finally, if you have feedback about this week’s episode or suggestions for future topics, I’m on Twitter, it’s @bryanjcollins.
Bryan: Welcome to the show, Jeremy.
Jeremy: Thank you so much for having me, man. I appreciate you taking some time out today.
Bryan: I’m about 150 episodes into this particular podcast, I’ve been going about three years, but you’re quite a bit further in your podcasting journey.
Jeremy: Yeah, we’ve been going since 2014, we just hit 1,000 episodes last week so it’s been a long time, man.
Bryan: Congrats, 1,000 episodes, that’s some achievement. I have lots of questions to ask you about podcasting and your book, which we’ll get to in a few moments, but what does it take to interview with 1,000 guests? That’s a huge commitment to the genre.
Jeremy: Well, I will tell you, in the beginning, I was doing a lot more interviews than I do now. I was doing seven a week, then we popped down to five a week, and then, about two years ago, we went down to three a week and now I only do two a week. It’s because, you’ve probably seen this too, like the space has changed a lot over the years. In the beginning, it was doing a lot of content to get noticed and now it’s doing better content to get noticed. So, the amount of interviews you have to do, it’s changed a lot over the years.
Bryan: Yeah, I’ve experimented with different types of podcast cadence, including two, three episodes a week. I’ve kind of settled on one per week because I feel that’s the right amount for listeners. And also there’s the time commitment of podcasting. So like our interview is normally about 30 minutes long but I would say it takes at least one to two hours to edit and prepare and publish the podcast. Have you had similar experiences?
Jeremy: Yeah. So, in the beginning, it took like, I don’t know, man, like three hours to really do a great job. But about four years ago, I started working with interns to edit the show and then we went with a full editing team about three years ago so I don’t do a lot of that anymore but in the beginning, man, it’s a lot of work.
Bryan: And when you’re interviewing a thousand-plus guests, I would imagine your areas of interest have changed over the years, like what did you wish you knew about podcasting when you interviewed guests 1 to 10 that you know now today?
Jeremy: I guess how to be a better interviewer, you know what I mean? Because in the beginning, I listen to my early episodes and — actually, I don’t listen to my early episode because I can’t, like they’re really difficult for me to listen to, I don’t know how to say it, I didn’t have a ton of experience, I didn’t really know what I was doing so I wasn’t asking very good questions. You could tell I was nervous. And, frankly, for me, it would be really doubling down on those interview skills. If I could do that, I think that would be a huge difference.
Bryan: Yeah, interviewing is something that can take a bit of time and practice to get right. So, I trained as a journalist so I picked up some interviewing skills then and I also worked as a radio producer for a few years so I got to learn from some other interviewers, but I guess if you’ve never interviewed somebody before, what kind of tips would you offer an aspiring podcaster to help them get over that bit of nervousness that might feel when they set up the first podcast interview?
Jeremy: Well, my process has changed a lot over the years. When I first started, I made like 30 questions because I was terrified of where this was going to go and I didn’t like dead noise either so like just that dead space made me nervous so, early on, I over prepared. And then about two years in, I tried this process where I did no preparation whatsoever, which is not good, it’s not a good idea, and I would ask people like what’s your story, which means they would talk for 2 minutes or 40 minutes and I had no control over that starting, which made it really difficult to then run the interview. And then about three and a half years ago, I arrived at my current process, which is where I come with a few things I want to talk about but I have like three, maybe five very well thought out, pre-written questions for that person because the idea is to open the conversation so you could have a great follow-up because the follow-up questions are really where a lot of the great information is because you’re trying to get some information, you have some there, and you can ask a better question. So, for me, I’ve learned how to write like three, maybe five really solid, well thought out questions and that helps me to come up with a better follow-up, because based on what somebody’s saying, I can create a better question that way. As well as like handling the nervousness, I will tell you, if it’s somebody that I’m still really excited about, I still get nervous man. And one of the things I like to do is go for a walk before I take those interviews and that really chills me out, gets my attention focused outward rather than inward, because we’re upset when things are happening, a lot of times we get introverted and attention goes in, and the biggest thing you can do is go for a walk and put attention out.
Bryan: That’s good advice. Yeah, I know when you’re interviewing somebody for the first time, it can be a little bit intimidating. But you’ve had some particularly high profile guests, Noah Kagan, Seth Godin, Grant Cardone, Robin Sharma. Did you do extra work for those guests or did you just follow the approach that you described there a few moments ago?
Jeremy: Frankly, the harder part with them was actually figuring out how to get them.
Bryan: I can imagine.
Jeremy: You know what I mean? Like that’s the game, like Robin Sharma, for example, I had reached out to his team, they’re like he’s busy for six months. I’m like, “Wow, that’s awesome. Six months from now, when would be the best time for me to follow up?” and later they gave me a date, I’m like, “Is he available for an interview on that day?” so we actually ended up setting a date and time on what would have been the follow-up date for the interview so I booked the interview six months out. The wild part is like coming up to his interview, they didn’t answer any of my confirms so I’m like am I going to be on this call by myself? Is there going to be somebody there? And sure enough, at the time for the interview, there was Robin Sharma. So, for me, it was also setting the target further out and being willing to get that. Seth Godin was actually one of the first people I reached out to and I guess, for him, like it matters how long your show’s been around to show you have staying power, I guess that’s going to mean it’s worth his time. And he was one of the first people I reached out to and he said, “Congratulations on starting your podcast, when you get to 400, let me know and we’ll do an episode then,” so I got in the 390s, I reached out to Seth, and he was the 400th episode of the show. So a lot of it is consistency and also knowing when the right time to reach out to somebody is.
Bryan: And you have built a business around podcasting. Could you tell listeners a bit about what you do?
Jeremy: Yeah, so we help people to tell a better story and appear on the right podcast as guests, because I think this is a really incredible medium that nothing has really existed like before. You look at radio and that’s still pretty short form even if they get a long spot, which is maybe 10 minutes. You look at TV, your spots are under 10 minutes, things like that. This is the first time and place you can get a long-form conversation with people where you really get to know somebody, you can really learn from their expertise. And so we help people to tell a better story, help them appear on the right podcast as guests to make a big impact.
Bryan: What does it take for somebody to become a good guest for a particular show? Should they bring talking points? Should they have a story about themselves that they’ve refined or is there something else that they should do?
Jeremy: I find most people are too structured with it, if that makes sense. Like, okay, these are the exact things I’m going to talk about, this is exactly how I’m going to talk about, and if you ask me anything outside of that, I’m going to struggle. I think the thing you really have to have in mind is for the people in the audience listening to this, like the people in their earbuds, like what are they going to get out of what you’re talking about? Like what are they going to receive from this experience? So I think when you can start to put the audience first and be of service in that, you come up with some really, really great teaching content, because one of the things I like to do and I actually forgot to do it in this interview, so I’m sorry, Bryan, because I usually asked like what would be the biggest thing you hoped to get out of this interview so then I can tailor my teaching to where we’re going in the direction we’re going to discuss things because I want to make sure there’s a ton of value for people in this. And I think as a guest, you have to have that first. But a lot of times, people are thinking of the product they want to sell, the book they want to promote, whatever it may be, and it shows in their content and what they talk about so you have to really just be there to service and be there to help people and because of that, you build a relationship and they do want to further that and find out more about what you’re doing. So, to me, if you want to be a great guest, that is the number one biggest thing to focus on, like, yes, know your story in a way that you can deliver it concisely, know the things that you typically cover, but at the same time, be willing to talk outside of the box and just service people in front of you.
Bryan: And on the shows that your clients typically want to appear on, are they receptive to guests or is it the case that you need somebody who knows somebody to get booked?
Jeremy: I will tell you, something we have to handle, a lot of people, there’s always like the same five shows everybody wants to appear on, and we’re like, “Okay, well, that’s great, so let’s think about, is this about vanity or is this about impacting your business?” So that’s something we have to handle early on with just about every client because they all want to be on Joe Rogan, they all want to be on Impact Theory, they all want to be on Tim Ferriss, and blah, blah, blah and it’s like those are great podcasts but, at the same time, are they going to age your brand? Not always. So we try to help people to understand is this about impact or vanity, which you find out for a lot of people, well, it’s a little bit about vanity, let’s take a look at impact. And when you look at that, there’s a couple different ways within that that we’re getting clients booked. One is, we’ve booked 5,000 shows over the last bunch of years so we have a lot of relationships, which is great, but at the same time, it doesn’t mean we own those shows and we can just walk in and book somebody in that show, like we have to write a good pitch, we have to be willing to service as an agency, and we have to know what a good fit for someone is so we don’t upset them and pitch them the wrong client. So, it’s a very delicate process to make sure that people are actually getting what they want on their end.
Bryan: Yeah, I could imagine also the hosts of those shows have really strict criteria about who they want to feature on their show. I mean, they’re getting pitched from left, right, and center. So if I’m somebody who’s thinking, I have a message, I want to make an impact, perhaps I have a new book or perhaps I have a course or some message I want to get out into the world, should I just go into iTunes and look in the category that’s relevant to my niche and start pitching? Or is there something else I should do?
Jeremy: So, it depends on where you’re at in your entrepreneurial journey. If you’re newer, then, frankly, you want to look at the shows you’re targeting. So, yes, you should look within your niche, which I think is important, that’s a really good point, but you should be looking at shows that have less than 20 reviews and less than 20 episodes because they’re smaller and newer shows and it allows you to get your feet wet as they’re getting their feet wet. So these are things you need to think about before you approach a medium-sized show or a larger-sized show because when you can get your feet better under you, you’re going to have a better experience for those larger shows. That’s one part of it. Because I find those top podcast lists to be kind of worthless because it’s based on what some editor thinks rather than statistically how people are doing so I do like using — Chartable is one really good one. Rephonic is another really great website for seeing how shows rank and how they’re doing over time. But I’m not a big believer in like top podcast lists and stuff like that outside of Spotify and iTunes, because it’s usually somebody else’s think on it and they put a bunch of their friends on a list and stuff like that. So, to me, I would look within your niche, I would look where you’re at within your journey, and then, from there — I use reviews as a good indicator because there’s not much many better stats other than ranking because ranking for a lot of shows changes every 24 hours so you can at least see consistently how people have done with that show over time.
Bryan: Yeah, also I find with roundups, sometimes people are creating roundups to get links to their website or share with some influencers so it’s not necessarily about what’s the best show, it’s more about building traffic or traction.
Jeremy: Right. You usually see to like those lists, they’ll throw like four or five massive shows on it and then 25 of their friends’ shows to, I guess, add some legitimacy to it.
Bryan: Yeah, I’ve had the same experience. So, I’m an avid podcast listener, and as I’m sure you are too, one thing that I do is take a lot of notes from podcasts I listen to and try and turn them into something that’s actionable. And this actually brings me to what I’d love to get from you, Jeremy, for this is about your book. So, I’m wondering, did you follow a similar process for your new book where you took advice or inspiration from your guests?
Jeremy: Somewhat, because here’s the interesting thing about it I wrote this book twice.
Jeremy: Yeah, the first time I wrote it in 2019, I’m like, “Wow, this is terrible,” and I threw the whole thing out and started again because we started with the idea of adversity and how important adversity is, which it is, and to me, it wasn’t enough to really base a book on based on what I’ve talked about, like I’m sure other people have had more life experience where that would work for them. For me, what we really ended up honing in on is what makes someone an extraordinary person, like what makes someone great. And we looked at that, we looked at stories from the people we’ve interviewed, and we found a lot of really core concepts that you hear again and again and again in a thousand conversations so I was like, wow, this is pretty incredible that these things work well. So then I actually had to build a process around how to do that. The thing I struggled with, frankly, is I’m an academic writer so I had to learn to write in a more of a way that communicates to people so the process that worked for me is I put together a Google Doc, I used the script to then make transcripts for like 10 different interviews, I dropped the sections from the interviews that I liked into that then Google Doc that I had, took those transcripts, because I didn’t want it to be like Jeremy said, person said, Jeremy said, person said, I took those and actually turned that into prose and made it into something that was a good story, understandable, and then what I did is I used the voice-to-text feature in Google Docs and then I filled in the introductions and the color and a lot of the other things I wanted to add to the stories from the text version and then I took that and went over it with a fine tooth comb and sent it to the editor, and the editor found like a thousand misspellings, which is kind of wild, so that was a process that worked really well for me because, as I said, I’m more of an academic writer, like my graduate thesis was on Roman emperor worship so you can even go figure. So, for me to write something that I wanted to be accessible to everyone, that was the process that worked for me.
Bryan: Did that process take long? Because you mentioned you basically overhauled what you had in 2019.
Jeremy: I started again from ground zero, man. I got rid of everything.
Bryan: Yeah. Well, a lot of authors go through similar processes with their first and second draft. So, did it take long for you to go through what you’ve just described?
Jeremy: It took me about a year. And here’s the thing I’ll say, like I think saying it’s a year is kind of a false, you know, how it’s going to work for you. How it did actually work for me really, if I looked at it, is my wife got to a point where she’s like, “Okay, you’ve been working on this darn thing forever, like let’s just get it done,” and, frankly, I got most of the work done in four Saturdays all day like working on it, like from 9 a.m. until 10 p.m. at night. It took me four days of actually like doing that like once I sat down and did it. The hard part was developing a process. Once I had one, it was easy to do but it took me almost a year to figure out what’s the process that works for me.
Bryan: Did you get any feedback at any point from the interviewees for your book?
Jeremy: Not until it was finished. What I did do is I had a couple friends that I really trust and really know my content well that were willing to sit down with me and really go over it and really make sure that it was in line with how the voice should sound, if that makes sense. So that really helped and having some — I did some interviews with friends interviewing me around it to help organize the content.
Bryan: Did you come up with the actual principles for the interviewees or was that something that emerged from when you spoke to them? Like, for example, one of the chapters is called It Takes Courage and then you have a story that illustrates that.
Jeremy: So, it’s interesting because I had what I wanted to talk about, if that makes sense, but I didn’t have the exact words to describe what the concept was until I wrote the chapter. And then once I got done, I’m like, “Oh, this comes up again and again and again and again. Okay, cool. This is what the concept is.” And then once I had the concept, I went back and massaged the chapter a little bit more, you know what I mean? Kind of like a work it back and forth thing, but, really, it had the story I wanted to cover and something I felt like was there. Once I put it together, I saw the concept that’s sort of coming out, I named it and then I went back to the writing and tried to make them agree.
Bryan: Okay, makes sense. That’s interesting, because you also link back then to the podcast interviews if somebody wants to actually hear the story as well.
Jeremy: Yeah, like, I don’t know, man, I’m definitely not a professional writer so I’m sure there’s better high level process but, for me, it’s what worked as somebody who doesn’t write a lot.
Bryan: Yeah, yeah, no, it’s a good process. Sometimes, people like to get supplementary material or they like to just check the sources, depending on the type of reader. So, a lot of people write books to earn money, to build our business, to share a message. What was your primary goal or what is your primary goal with Unremarkable to Extraordinary?
Jeremy: It was really like a solidification and next level of the brand because I’ve been doing this for a really long time and I felt like we were at the point where I wanted to make that jump from where the Create Your Own Life where my podcast brand is to where I want it to be. And this is, I guess, the next iteration and the next leveling of it. It’s been very well received, so, so far, it seems to be kind of achieving what we’re looking to achieve, but, for me, it was just like leveling up the brand and going to that next level.
Bryan: Are you planning on spending long promoting the book or are you going to — or what kind of promotion activities do you have planned for it?
Jeremy: So, right now, we’re in the middle of a six-month campaign so we’re really focusing on that. Over that time period, we’re doing 1,000 podcast interview — I’m sorry, 1,000, that would be insane, 100 podcast interviews. How would somebody do 1,000 podcast interviews.
Bryan: I’m sure someone has.
Jeremy: Oh, my God. So we’re doing 100 podcast interviews. We also have a bunch of TV media, print media, things like that going around. We did a launch party a couple weeks ago, which was awesome. We had a lot of great people come out.
Bryan: Oh, congrats.
Jeremy: So, yeah, it’s kind of what we’re just doing. We’re focusing a lot on podcasts since that’s kind of what we do and I think what gets the best attention for authors so that’s what the plans look like.
Bryan: Yeah, podcasting is definitely a good format, particularly for nonfiction authors. It can be a little bit harder for fiction authors to use podcasting, unless they’re prepared to talk about the writing process.
Jeremy: I will be honest with you, that’s like why we actually don’t work with a lot of fictional authors because that’s a very hard campaign to do because there just doesn’t seem to be enough of a space for people to talk about fiction on podcasts, at least that’s what I’ve experienced.
Bryan: So I worked with a podcast booking agent about two years ago and I got booked on some shows, but one takeaway that I took from it, and feel free if you’ve had a different experience, is that if you’re going to do something like this, you really need more than a book. You need the course, you need the speaking package, you need something else, because you’re not going to earn a return just on your nonfiction book.
Jeremy: No, I wouldn’t disagree, like I think the purpose, it has to fit into a bigger brand and why you’re doing it. Like a lot of times, the people we’re working with, the book is the next play in their brand iteration, just like it was for me. You’re not doing this to earn royalties, if that makes sense, on the podcast program. It’s more about getting out there, getting attention, connect with the right people and growing your brand. That’s really the strategy we’re looking at with it.
Bryan: Yeah, makes sense. Makes sense. So is that something that you sometimes have to advise potential clients on when they come to you and say, “I want to be on a podcast”?
Jeremy: Not a lot of times, because we’ve done a really good job at making sure we’re reaching the right public or we’re educating our public well before they get to us so we’re at least speaking the same language by the time they arrive. There is the situation here and there that if you’re doing this for royalties, this may not be the right program for you. This is more about brand building, attention, growth, getting out there, connecting with the right people. Like I’ve had some amazing speaking engagements from podcasts in places all over the world. I did a tour over Europe in 2019, but that’s all been from connections I’ve made on podcasts. So if you’re looking for that type of an impact, that’s what we help people do.
Bryan: And should somebody consider starting their own podcasts or are they better off going down the guest podcasting route first?
Jeremy: So it depends, like one of the big things I recommend to people is like you really need to differentiate yourself from people in your space or don’t start a podcast, because there’s too many people out there doing the exact same show. And I think for that reason, there needs to be a particular reason people will come to you over someone else and I think that’s vital. If you’re willing to really nail that differentiation, then, hey, go for it, man, go all at it. I would recommend being on some other shows as a guest before you host because it gives you a better viewpoint of what it’s like to be on the other side of the mic so you run a better interview, or at least that’s been my experience. But I think most people, if they don’t really look at differentiating, then it might make more sense to just have conversations in other people’s shows.
Bryan: Yeah, it can also help you get your feet wet and you can also see the nuts and bolts of how the behind the scenes part of podcasting works and iron out any concerns you might have about technical issues, like your mic or your camera and so on.
Jeremy: You still have to worry, yeah, like as we’re talking right now, like I know you said this is audio only so people can’t see my camera, it’s choosing not to view my webcam so you’re only seeing my MacBook camera.
Bryan: Yeah, that’s a good point. Actually, some podcast interviewers also use the video so it’s good to ask that beforehand so you can put on your makeup if you’re female and you use makeup or brush your hair or tidy your background. So I’ve been asked all of those questions beforehand when guests come on the show. So when you’re also thinking about podcasting, should you have your target audience honed down and your message for them honed down or can you let that evolve while you’re podcasting?
Jeremy: I think start out with your target and it grows over time, like the more conversations you have, the better your talking points get, the better your conversations you get to have, like if I look at the way I communicate as a guest, it is vastly different than it was five years ago. If I look at the way I communicate as a host, it’s vastly different than it was five years ago. Because I think too many people feel like they have to have all their ducks in a row before they start anything altogether, but, really, what it should look like is you have it enough structured so that you can do something with it and then, from there, you’re going to get better with experience, like I’m a big believer in experience being one of our best teachers so, to me, that’s how I really view it.
Bryan: Yeah, it’s good to get some practice, again, which brings back to a point you said earlier on about becoming the guest and getting practice behind the mic before you set up your own show. So, you also talked about your cadence for podcasting, how you went from seven to five to two. I’ve had similar experiences. Do you think podcasting has a long tail in that old episodes can resurface or does it matter?
Jeremy: No, I definitely think it does, like I see so many downloads in my back catalogue, it’s kind of wild, and I think that’s how you pull a lot of people into your content because those episodes can be out there for years and like 1,000 episodes, that’s 1,000 different ways somebody can find me. And I think that’s what’s really cool is you’re giving yourself more ability to get found, but as I mentioned, I think the strategy used to be do a ton of episodes. I think now, it’s do better and longer form episodes. I think that’s where the impact is now.
Bryan: Yeah, I guess the publishing every day kind of came from a couple different entrepreneurial podcasts, if you went down that road. John Lee Dumas, I think, publishes a podcast every day. Still does it.
Jeremy: He doesn’t do it every day anymore now, he’s down —
Bryan: He’s changed?
Jeremy: He’s doing longer form episodes and less of them as well. I think it’s just the direction the world’s going.
Bryan: Yeah, there’s more content than ever for us to consume.
Bryan: Which brings me to my next question. What are your thoughts on podcasting still being fairly new versus an old format?
Jeremy: I think, frankly, we’re arriving at this really cool area of it where people are doing less episodes, longer episodes, and you have the ability to listen to conversations you couldn’t get before. Where else can you hear somebody talk for an hour or two hours or whatever it may be? I’m a huge fan of the Hardcore History podcast and I know Dan Carlin’s episodes are like six hours, I don’t know how many people could actually do that, but you really get the ability to know somebody, hang out with somebody, and develop conversations. Like you can only get so deep in a conversation in 20 or 30 minutes whereas when you’re talking an hour or longer, you really can dive into some things and I think because of that, you’re — because you look at like TV and radio, they’re made for this show is a half an hour or this show is an hour and we have sponsors here and sponsors there and we have the next program coming on in an hour. With podcasting, we do what it takes, kind of like, “Okay, this is how long the conversation takes, we’ll stop when we’re done,” and I think there just isn’t really another format like that that’s just not limited by like this is the exact amount of time we have in order to do this. It’s half an hour but we can only be 22 minutes because there are going to be a whole bunch of commercials in there and things like that.
Bryan: Do you schedule out much in advance or much ahead?
Jeremy: We’re usually about 30 to 60 days where the interviews are actually done scheduled and ready to go. We’re usually about that unless there’s something really interesting that happens that I want to talk about, then we’ll pull in a guest and schedule that interview earlier than the ones that are already scheduled but we’re usually 30 to 60 days recorded and in the can and ready to go.
Bryan: I vary somewhere between one to two months which, I guess, would be something similar, although I’m publishing a little less frequently than you are. So what other podcasters do you think are doing a particularly good job today that people should check out?
Jeremy: So here’s the thing, man. I listen to a lot of sports podcasts and stuff like that, as weird as that’s going to sound, so like I’m a big New York Yankees fan so there’s like two different podcasts I listen in that area, like the Bronx Pinstripes podcast, Talkin’ Yanks, things like that. I’m a big fan of the Lore podcast with Aaron Mahnke, that’s a really great podcast as well. Like it’s weird because I do an interview show and I don’t listen to a ton of interview shows. I listen to more things that are like news related, sports related, fictional, like I love like long-form audio dramas, they’re great. So I don’t know. I guess maybe I don’t have the best advice on that one.
Bryan: Oh, no problem. Well, I think you mentioned some podcasts earlier on, Joe Rogan and Tim Ferriss, which most people would know but I find that they’re the best interviewers working at the moment in the podcasting genre.
Jeremy: No, I wouldn’t disagree. I think they do a great job and I was — like I’ve only been listening to Joe Rogan for maybe a little over a year or something like that and not even consistently. It’s like, “Oh, am I interested in this episode?” and I was kind of surprised how great an interviewer he is.
Bryan: Yeah, he’s fantastic. It’s a bit disconcerting when you listen to him first because he starts in the middle of a conversation.
Jeremy: Yeah, you’re kind of like, “Wait, where am I and how did I get here?”
Bryan: “Did I miss the start?” So, you’re promoting your book at the moment, Unremarkable to Extraordinary. Do you think you’d write another book or was this book that you wrote once off?
Jeremy: I think at some point, there will be a next one, but right now, we’re enjoying this one and seeing where it goes and everything else and then we’ll go from there. I feel like I do have more to say that didn’t fit in that book but it’s probably a few years down the road.
Bryan: Have you any plans to build anything else around your book? For example, courses or direct coaching, or are you just going to focus on what you’re doing today?
Jeremy: For me, it’s really just it was upleveling the brand, just offering some great feedback. People I had — I don’t really have a desire to be a coach or sell a program or anything like that, it just really was, you know, we’ve been doing this podcast for years, it’s been great. I wanted to communicate to my audience another way and I thought this would be a great way to do it. I’m not really selling anything on the back of it.
Bryan: If somebody’s thinking of starting a podcast today, what message, what would you say to them?
Jeremy: I’d say figure out how you’re different than others out there or just don’t bother because there’s too many people starting the exact same podcast.
Bryan: Good advice. Good advice. Jeremy, where else can people go if they want to read your book or learn more about you?
Jeremy: Well, if they want to get the book, that’s over at getextraordinarybook.com. If they want to check out our company, that’s over at commandyourbrand.com.
Bryan: I’ll put the links in the show notes. Thanks very much, Jeremy.
Jeremy: Absolutely, man. Thank you so much for having me.
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