Austin: There’s a process of elimination or trying several different things and, ultimately, you have to look at two metrics. One, do I find this work satisfying? If I don’t really enjoy the work, it’s gonna be hard to be really good at it. And then, number two, like is it actually meeting my needs and, you know, I’m just trying not to fall asleep on the job and keep on improving the business over time, both the income and the joy.

(intro)

Welcome to the Become a Writer Today Podcast with Bryan Collins. Here, you’ll find practical advice and interviews for all kinds of writers.

Bryan: What are your limiting mindsets around money and freelancing? Hi, there. My name is Bryan Collins, welcome to the Become a Writer Today Podcast. 

Like many writers, I’ve had some limiting beliefs around money which have held me back over the years. I spent some time unemployed and I used to say to myself that this was the job of a writer to not have much money because it frees them up to work on creative projects, to write short stories and poetry and so on. I guess I was saying to myself I don’t deserve to earn money to get paid to write. Later on, when I started getting paid as a copywriter for a British software company, even though I didn’t quite have enough at the start of my career to pay the bills, I said things like, “I should be content with what I have because lots of other people I know are worse off,” and, “Well, I’m lucky to have a job,” and I should point out that this was just after the recession of 2008, 2009. 

Even later, in my 30s, I used to say things like, “It’s really hard for writers to make money or to earn a living today because perhaps it’s harder to sell books or people don’t read as much as they used to.” I still encounter these types of limiting beliefs around money from time to time so I haven’t unwound them all. And if you’re listening to this and any of these strike a chord with you, I’d encourage you to dig a little bit deeper into why you think that you don’t deserve to earn money for creative work or why you feel like you should be content with what you already have or even limiting beliefs like, “I’m just not good with money,” because the thing is, you can get paid for creative work, you could do something that’s creatively satisfying, and which could also help you pay the bills, and it’s gonna be particularly important if you’re early off or if you’re starting off your writing career. Now, if you’re later on in your career, perhaps you’re writing a book because you want to get a message out into the world and you’ve already made enough money to live off, in which case perhaps you’ve already worked through these limiting beliefs about money.

That said, this week’s interviewee, his name is Austin Church, and he’s a brand consultant and one of the things he helps freelancers or new freelancers overcome these types of limiting beliefs. And in this week’s interview, we delve into just that and he offers a number of different tips and strategies which you can use for overcoming these types of beliefs. Aside from how to overcome these types of beliefs, a key takeaway from this week’s interviewee is his tips on branding for writers and for creatives. So while it’s fine to have a personal blog or a website that’s under your own name and where you write or publish whatever you want, I’d also encourage you, and this is something Austin draws on in the interview, to think about what your business or professional brand looks like. So if, for example, you want to set up a website about running, for example, and this comes up in the interview, you could set up the website under a domain name that’s related to running rather than related to you. That way, if the website starts to attract organic traffic or starts to attract an audience, you can bring other writers on board and you don’t necessarily tie your identity to this particular website. Similarly, you can apply the same approach if you want to set up a website about other topics, like barbecues or even parenting, and that way, this gives you a bit of freedom and flexibility to try on or to tackle different niches or niches, as they say in the United States. 

Now, if you’re still wondering how can you go about diversifying your personal brand versus your professional identity or what pays the bills, that’s something we cover towards the latter part of the interview. 

If you find any of the interview helpful, please consider leaving a short review on the iTunes Store or share the show with another writer or a friend, because your stars, ratings, and reviews really do help listeners find the podcast. And, of course, if you enjoy this week’s interview, please reach out to me on Twitter, at @bryanjcollins.

(interview)

Bryan: Austin and I have a somewhat similar story in 2008 and 2009 during the recession. I was laid off from a job working for a local radio station as a producer and I was out of work for a while and it took me quite some time to find paying work. And I believe, Austin, you’ve had a similar experience.

Austin: Very similar. I lost my job at a marketing agency. After being there 6 months, the economy tanked in the US, I was a member of the half of the firm that left. You know, we lost our jobs and then I suddenly found myself unemployed.

Bryan: Yeah, when I was out of work, it was quite a stressful experience for me. At the time, our daughter, who is now 11, was 3 and, you know, I was quite worried about being able to pay the bills and pay the mortgage so I went a different path to you, Austin. I actually was out of work for a while but then I found a paying job as a copywriter for a corporate company and I hung in there for most of my 30s, so I’m 40 now, and I left that job when I was 39. And I don’t think I will go — I have no desire to go back to working for a company, even though I had a good experience. I prefer working for myself. But you, on the other hand, you’ve freelanced consistently since 2009.

Austin: That’s right. You know, there have been certain side ventures along the way. I was the co-founder and investor in a tech startup so I did that for a little while, but even while we were trying to scale that company, I was still paying my family’s bills with freelance gigs and so freelancing has been the one continuous stream for me for the last 13 years.

Bryan: When you say freelancing, so, for me, freelancing was writing articles and some copywriting work. What does freelancing or what did freelancing involve for you?

Austin: So my background was in writing, I got two degrees in English, the second one came with a focus in creative writing so writing was definitely my entree into freelancing. But, as time passed and as my capabilities grew, I had some clients who were interested in project management. They wanted me to be the one to hire other creatives, a photographer or a web developer, designer, whoever. So, writing led to project management. Project management led to more strategy. Strategy led to a more what I would call high-level problem solving, consulting. So, that’s a lot of what I do now. It’s brand workshops and then strategy retainers with clients who just really want outside perspective on an ongoing basis.

Bryan: Has it taken you long to hone your freelance business? To find your ideal clients and to I suppose build it into something that you can rely on? 

Austin: Yes. And I would still say it’s in process. I think that process never ends and I think, based on my wiring and my personality, I’m constantly tinkering and trying to optimize and refine. And also, I think, you know, you said you’re 40, I’m 42, and I think that — 40, also, I should say, not 42, but I think our preferences change and evolve and so the types of clients that I want to work with now are different than the ones I wanted to work with 5 years ago. So, I’m very interested in project-based work, I’m very interested in solving a discrete problem and having, to some degree, a quantifiable outcome for clients. And that being said, I still do love the writing. That part of the passion has never gone away from me.

Bryan: A lot of writers have some limiting beliefs around what’s possible. One common limiting belief relates to money so, “I don’t deserve to get paid for my creative work. I don’t deserve to get paid to write.” Is that something that you’ve encountered? And when you encounter it, what do you say to someone who proposes a belief like that?

Austin: I encounter it myself, I encounter it all the time in other freelancers and consultants I coach. And some of the advice I give is just start by putting your money and related beliefs on the table. Most of them are formed when we were children. They’re formed by the families we come from. They’re influenced later by friends and education and just stuff or cargo we pick up from culture, just little sayings, even like, “A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush,” right? Well, that could also be called scarcity mindset based on the context. But, anyway, these beliefs, they could come as a part of our core operating system and, as such, we don’t even examine them or challenge them until someone says, “Hey, you know not everyone believes that about money, right?” So, step one that I recommend is just write it out, like what do you believe about money and you may find some eyebrow raising things like, “Oh, I actually think that having money will turn me into someone I don’t like,” or, “I actually think that if you have a lot of money, that makes you greedy.” These are not rational beliefs. Many beliefs aren’t, but it’s not until we actually identify what we already believe that we can begin the process of breaking beliefs and upgrading them.

Bryan: You mentioned before that you studied poetry and you sound like somebody who spends a lot of time on creative work and creative writing, but you were also building your business. Have you ever found it challenging to balance creative work with earning an income or do you try to keep them separate as in this is what I do because it fires me up and this is what I do to pay the bills? 

Austin: It’s always challenging and I was joking just yesterday that my poet mind and my entrepreneur mind are locked in mortal combat, because certain projects, they just satisfy my intellectual and creative curiosity and I want to pursue those projects because the work makes me happy. That being said, the work that pays the most isn’t always the work that pays the best. You can sell a freelance project that has a really big price tag but after you invest all the time, your effective hourly rate on that big exciting project is actually much lower than a smaller, maybe even boring project over here. So I think sometimes I have to engage that entrepreneur mind and say, well, if I’m gonna try to sell and scale certain types of projects, then the entrepreneur mind wants to take over and say, I should sell and scale the projects that pay the best, not the ones that pay the most and not necessarily the ones that sort of tickle my fancy, the ones I find most entertaining. There’s this guy I follow online, Alex Hormozi. He just put it bluntly, he was like do you expect your business to entertain you? So I’m like, well, that’s a good point. I have confused it to livelihood entertainment quite a bit, but now that I’ve got a family counting on me, sometimes I have to tell my poet mind to shush and then turn to my entrepreneur mind and say, “Okay, you make the decisions now, let’s get off the best paying work and let’s make a pragmatic decision to create, you know, livelihood for my family.”

Bryan: One challenge with doing any of this, particularly when you spend time building a business online, is there’s always somebody who’s one step ahead who has more followers, a bigger website, more book sales, better clients, more testimonials, so should writers and creatives be content with where they’re at?

Austin: I mean, whether we should be is a different question than whether we can be, right? Because like I think discontentment may be a part of the human experience but I also think that contentment, I mean, is the main contributor to happiness so there’s that constant balance of stretching to achieve more because a lot of freelancers discover, even if they were creatives, even if they came from like an art term liberal arts background, they find this ambition, this business ambition they didn’t know they had, so I would say on the one hand, comparison is a joy killer, and I would say on the other hand, the process should be about becoming the best version of yourself and building a business that you love, regardless of whether it hits any metrics that matter to other people. So, I don’t know if that’s a good answer. I’ll just say just make sure that you’re not imitating people whose definition of success, the natural conclusion or end of that, you wouldn’t call success at all, like ruining your marriage, being estranged from your children, that sort of thing. I think ambition can run wild if you don’t take a step back and say, “Listen, my freelance business is about my family and having enough and being able to give generously to other people and hanging out with cool people like Bryan,” and it’s a very, very personal thing. So, that’s why I sometimes struggle to get succinct advice.

Bryan: I think it’s helpful to ask questions, like you said, they’re asked what is my business for and I’d also add like what is the purpose of money for me. So, for example, when I was working in a corporate job, at one point, I was working 12-hour days because I was building Become a Writer Today in the morning and then working like a corporate job during the day and then trying to catch up in the evening. I was spending like 12 hours in this room where I’m recording this podcast. I remember thinking this isn’t really what I wanted to work towards. So, I immediately was grateful for all the free time I unlocked when I left. But it took quite some time to get to that point where I was able to take a risk and go out by myself. But that said, I think it’s easier today for writers and creatives to earn a living online. So, for example, if you’re a freelance writer, you can set up a profile on Medium and you can join the Medium Partner Program, get paid, you know, small amounts, maybe $200 or $100, and that can be validation that you can actually make a go of writing online and then you can go from there. But I suppose 10 years ago, these platforms didn’t exist. So, has it been your experience that it is easier for creatives today? And if so, is there any other opportunities that you would recommend to your clients?

Austin: I think, yes, it is easier. There are more platforms, there are more business models than there have ever been, but I do think that can bring the paralysis of choice where you have writers who have a hard time choosing which direction to go. And I think there’s a process of elimination or trying several different things and, ultimately, you have to look at two metrics. One, do I find this work satisfying? If I don’t really enjoy the work, it’s gonna be hard to be really good at it. And then, number two, like is it actually meeting my needs and, yeah, just try not to fall asleep on the job and keep on improving the business over time, both the income and the joy, paying attention to both of those and trying to grow both over time.

Bryan: And are there any avenues that you recommend or any business models that you would recommend to somebody starting out today?

Austin: I would say get to private clients as quickly as you can. I think there are great platforms out there, like Upwork, that can help freelance writers get their first client, but I’ve never met a freelance writer who was really eager to stick with a platform full time and be fully dependent on getting leads from just one place for the duration of their career. The point of an independent career is to not be dependent upon a single platform. And so, if I were to give one piece of advice, get to private clients as quickly as you can. And then look at LinkedIn. I know a lot of people are talking about it right now but they’re talking about it for good reason. All of the clients that you really want are hanging out on LinkedIn so optimize your profile, show up, share what you know, make that a primary prospecting strategy.

Bryan: You mentioned at the start of the interview that you’re a branding consultant and on some of the clients that you work with. Do you still write today? And if so, what do you write?

Austin: So I write a lot. When it comes to what I write for clients, typically, their core messaging. So, I’ll do a branding engagement where we help them with differentiation, positioning, value proposition, and, ultimately, taking some of their differentiators and turning those into solution-based messages that they can use all over the place. But once we have that messaging framework, they might still need help with what I would call “boots on the ground copywriting,” so that might be web copy, that might be a sales deck, that might be copywriting for marketing collateral, that sort of thing. So, I still really enjoy that copywriting for clients, but when it comes to my own writing, I’m working on a book, working on a children’s book, also I write a lot for LinkedIn, I write a newsletter every single week, so I’m always writing about some aspect of freelancing just because it continually fascinates me.

Bryan: Oh, interesting. I like that you’re tackling in a couple of different niches or niches, as you say in the US.

Austin: So, my wife and I have three kids at the time of recording, they are nine, six, and four. I’ve already published one children’s book. It’s a true story that my grandmother told my two sisters and me when we were growing up, and publishing that book and then just sharing it with friends and family and kind of watching all of the serendipity and beautiful moments it created, I definitely wanna repeat that experience. I mean, it wasn’t a huge moneymaker, I did a Kickstarter and so I was able to offset all of the publishing costs but, you know, I still have a lot of stories left in me and, I mean, I was a fiction writer and poet so I wanna get into fiction eventually. But I’m grateful that my freelance business and my coaching business enable me to keep writing front and center. And then, one day, maybe I’ll become more of a man of letters, you know?

Bryan: That’s the dream, yeah.

Austin: You’re right, exactly, like being able to —

Bryan: Well, you’re kind of doing it with the newsletter.

Austin: That’s true. I can write about whatever I want and so I think that’s — a lot of us who do have literary aspirations want to be able to write whatever we want right now. And I just have to remind myself, “Be patient, you’ll get there, you’re building an audience, you’ve got the newsletter, be patient.”

Bryan: So as a brand consultant, I mean, I have to ask you one mistake that I’ve made over the years is the “write whatever I want angle” and then I what I end up with is like a website or a newsletter that’s covering lots of different topics, like, for example, extracts from a parenting book I wrote with some thoughts on Web 3.0 and they’re completely different audiences so I ended up having to separate them into different sites. They just happen to be topics that are of interest to me. So, when you’re working with a brand, like how do you help them differentiate their audiences and what they should say to their respective audiences? Because I think that’s an important distinction for writers to make if they want to start a newsletter, like it has to be about more than just you, the writer, what you did today.

Austin: I agree, and I think a lot of writers are curious people. We’re fascinated by a bunch of different topics and we have to resist that impulse. But, to your point, you know, you can’t be known for one thing, you can’t be a recognized authority, if you’re writing about 12 different topics. And kind of goes back to what we talked about earlier, making the choice between livelihood and entertainment. I find it more entertaining to write about parenting perhaps than freelancing but I have to exercise self-restraint and say the way that I will become a recognized authority in a niche, niche, whatever we wanna call it, is by writing about the same thing over and over and over and over again. That’s how I build equity in my brand. That’s how I build my perceived authority. And people do need to associate you with a certain topic or niche or specialization, what? Like 50 to 100 times? I totally pulled that number out of thin air, but we need repeated exposure to this person equals authority in that niche. Otherwise, we won’t sort of add that fact, the file folder that we keep for those people in our heads. So you think about big brands have to do this. Coca-Cola equals happiness. Coca-Cola equals happiness. Coca-Cola does not equal world peace or environmental sustainability. Patagonia, they have like gone the environmental and ecological route, but Coca-Cola? No, they’re like, “We want to be one thing in your mind and that’s happiness.” So I do think freelance writers can borrow some plays from the playbooks of big brands and say, “What’s the one thing I want to be known for? That’s what I need to talk about 90 percent of the time.”

Bryan: And what about experimentation? Because I presume you’re not putting parts of your children’s book on LinkedIn, I presume that’s a different type of writing.

Austin: So, I mean, you kind of mentioned earlier, it’s fine to have a different website, a different brand, just — and you kind of mentioned this, I think the danger is diluting the brand that you do have, the brand that needs to pay your bills, diluting that, like I could write about barbecue, I love barbecue, I make barbecue, it’s something that I’m really interested in, but if I wanna do brand consulting and if I wanna coach freelancers, well, I can’t be writing about barbecue all the time because that’s confusing. So, if I want to write about barbecue, I need to do it under a separate barbecue brand. Those people may not be hanging out on LinkedIn, maybe they are on Instagram, so, great, I’m gonna spin off another brand and then what I’m gonna write about when I am operating under the barbecue brand is barbecue and not freelancing, right? So I would just say keep separate brands, try to honor the integrity of each one.

Bryan: The way I think about it is you can have a brand about barbecues but it’s not about you so you could work with other writers and content creators for the barbecue website or the barbecue newsletter. 

Austin: That’s right. 

Bryan: And that would — plus that brings different voices to the table as well.

Austin: It’s not true that you have to keep that narrow focus forever, like you do see a lot of people who are like, oh, they first get started talking about social media strategy and then, over time, maybe they talk about e-commerce too. But, again, if you’re in the early stage and you’re just trying to build an audience and establish yourself as an authority, as an expert, you just waltz, you won’t get traction if you’re writing about 12 different things because your audience doesn’t know what to expect from you. So, make sure you honor that contract with your audience by continuing to create value around the topic that they showed up for in the first place.

Bryan: Yeah. I mean, Gary Vaynerchuk is a good example of somebody who’s moved from one kind of subject matter to another over the years so he started out talking about wine and then it was social media and then content marketing and now he’s more moving into Web 3.0, which has worked quite well. But, yeah, I’m glad you mentioned about topical authority. So, I spend a lot of time looking at search engine optimization for websites and, again, if you had your barbecue site and then you had freelance writing articles on the same site, the Google algorithm would more than likely get confused and you’re not gonna get — well, you’re unlikely to get the right type of traffic for that particular site so it will be better to have two different websites with two different tones of voice and writers and so on.

Austin: That’s right. And you mentioned something that — you mentioned earlier, it’s like as freelancers, we kind of are the business so the way that I have solved this in terms of like how do I write what I want to write about while also honoring the integrity of my brand and establishing myself as an authority in this narrow niche? Well, my personal blog is where I write about whatever I wanna write about and then I have another brand, Freelance Cake, that’s where I’m gonna put a lot of the content about freelancing. You know, and like you said, if I’m gonna stand at the barbecue site, I will keep it there. So, all those freelance writers out there who were like, “But I’m interested in a bunch of different things,” like, great, have a blog where you can write about whatever interests you but just don’t necessarily put that on the blog that you need to drive business. 

Bryan: Yeah, your website, Freelance Cake, is great. It’s really clean. I really like the design of it. It’s quite clear what you want people to do. You can tell you’ve been working in online marketing. So, your key benefit or selling point is that you can discover what six-figure freelancers already know and do. So somebody who’s listening to this and they’re saying themselves, “I wanna start freelancing,” what does a six-figure freelancer know that a new freelancer doesn’t apart from I suppose what we’ve just talked about?

Austin: One of the things that we have just been talking about is specialization, right? But the way I can answer the question most succinctly is six P’s: positioning, packaging, pricing, pipeline, psychology, and process. Like all of the six-figure freelancers that I’ve studied, some of who are friends, some I’ve just looked at from afar, my own experience, right? It really just comes back to identifying the specific advantages. Sometimes I call them levers. If I pull this letter, I will get better results with less effort. One of those is positioning. Do you have a very clear value proposition that helps make you the easy, obvious choice for your dream client? And then packaging. Do you have juicy offers that make it really easy for clients to say yes? Offers are different than services, right? So, a lot of it comes back to what are six-figure freelancers thinking and doing differently than freelancers who earn less and, oftentimes, it’s one of those six P’s. That’s not just an endless array of things, it normally falls into one of those six categories and so that’s what I teach you about the most. I mean, I’ve already mentioned this, I have a family, I wanna watch my kids grow up and I just had to become a lot more protective with my time. I couldn’t work those 12-hour days that you mentioned and so I had to start looking for leverage and that quest for leverage is what led to a lot of the training that I created, a lot of the advice that I give, a lot of the content that I put out into the world.

Bryan: So when you say training, you mean the course that you have, the masterclass?

Austin: There’s a course and then there’s also, I call it program because it’s normally something I do with people where it’s work-based. It’s called Business Bootcamp for Freelancers. And that’s a six-week program, one key outcome per week. But, again, I’ve just been on I would say since 2015, so for the last 7 years, I’ve been on this journey of thinking like how do you get better results with less effort when you’re selling creativity and creative skills? So, in this business model, with this thing that we sell, how are the people who are the best at it getting the results that they get? And so that’s what I focus on now, more than like tactics, it’s about principles.

Bryan: I got the feeling that a newsletter and email is a big part of your business.

Austin: For sure. 

Bryan: Is there any particular tips that you would offer to a freelancer for how they can use email? Because, typically, when you’re a freelancer, you know, you’re on a site like Upwork or Indeed or some jobs board, you get contacted via that platform and then, you know, you complete the gig and then you move on. So I think it’s unusual for freelancers to have an email list. And so if they do have one, well, like what should they do with it?

Austin: So I normally recommend just send at least every couple of weeks a newsletter. You can keep it very simple. What are you thinking about? What are you learning? What are you doing? And it’s just a very simple keynotes every 2 weeks to stay top of mind, because a lot of — you know, the lifetime value of any one client goes up if you keep in touch and make sure that you have first right of refusal on future projects, but the fact is freelancers forget to keep in touch and then our clients move on and they hire someone else. So, email is just a great way to keep in touch without constantly hammering people and saying, “Do you have a project for me? Do you have a project for me?” So, again, you show up in people’s inbox and create value. “Hey, I listened to this podcast, this is one takeaway that’s great. Here’s the link to the episode.” “I just finished this book. It made me think about pricing in a new way. Here’s the excerpt from the book,” like that kind of stuff. You’re not just begging for projects. You’re bringing back all the interesting things, like I said, you’re thinking about, learning, and doing and I think that formula works pretty well.

Bryan: Yeah, I would certainly agree with that. Finally, when I was reading your About page, we do have one other thing in common. I believe you’re a marathon runner. Are you training for any races at the moment?

Austin: So, right now, I’m overcoming some — I don’t know if it’s nerve damage but I’ve got something going on in my left foot. That’s not what any of your listeners care to hear about, I’m still running.

Bryan: I’m asking, this is purely selfish, because I like to run.

Austin: So I run three or four times a week still. I’ve had to reduce my mileage a little bit while I figure out this issue with the physical therapist. But, Bryan, I started using this blockchain-based running game called StepN. Have you heard of this?

Bryan: I’ve heard of it.

Austin: So we can have a separate conversation about that but I still run all the time and I think running makes me a better freelancer. No joke.

Bryan: Yeah. Well, that’s what I like to tell myself, particularly because I spend so much time online, running is something that’s outdoors and, oddly enough, I’ve come up with some ideas for things to work when I’m not sitting on my computer whenever I run.

Austin: Yes. It’s a strategic decision to take a break and let your mind wander a little bit and then a genius idea pops in your head and you’re thinking, I wouldn’t have had that idea if I had still been at my desk.

Bryan: Which goes back to what we were saying about creative work and how it can mesh with the entrepreneurial hat that you were describing, your gladiatorial combat. So, Austin, it’s great to talk to you. We certainly had a few things in common with our careers. Where can listeners go if they want to learn more about you or take one of your courses?

Austin: Sure. Freelancecake.com. I’m finally on LinkedIn, I’m on there a lot, AustinLChurch, and reach out with any questions.

Bryan: I’ll be sure to include the links in the show notes. Thanks for your time, Austin.

Austin: My pleasure. Thanks for the opportunity, Bryan.

(outro)

Bryan: I hope you enjoyed this week’s episode. If you did, please consider leaving a short review on the iTunes Store or sharing the show on Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you’re listening. More reviews, more ratings, and more shares will help more people find the Become a Writer Today Podcast. And did you know, for just a couple of dollars a month, you could become a Patreon for the show? Visit patreon.com/becomeawritertoday or look for the Support button in the show notes. Your support will help me record, produce, and publish more episodes each month. And if you become a Patreon, I’ll give you my writing books and discounts on writing software and on my writing courses.