Become a Writer Today

NFTS for Writers or Are They a Scam? With Jessica Artemisia

May 16, 2022 Bryan Collins Season 2
Become a Writer Today
NFTS for Writers or Are They a Scam? With Jessica Artemisia
Show Notes Transcript

Jessica Artemisia Mathieu is a sci-fi, fantasy author and digital marketing agency owner. She's also the creator of The Sovereigntii, which uses NFTs on blockchain as a new form of storytelling, community, and income.

Jessica is one of the few writers I've talked to so far who's successfully using NFT as part of her writing career. I wanted to find out how she's doing it and how writers can get involved today.

My key takeaway from talking to Jessica is that we're still incredibly early, so if you find some of the language, terminology, and steps to buying NFTs confusing, don't worry, you're not alone.

But now's a good time to learn about the space because NFTs are here to stay for creatives. And it'll be interesting to see how writers and authors use NFTs in future years to connect with their fans and readers.

In this episode, we discuss:

  • How to create an NFT based on a piece of writing
  • How NFTs are opening the door for artists worldwide
  • Are NFTs expensive and what are the alternatives?
  • Why do NFT creators use pseudonyms?
  • Keeping yourself safe in the NFT space


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If you enjoyed the show please leave a review on Apple. And if you have any questions you can find me on Twitter @BryanJCollins

Thanks for listening!

Jessica: I think that the best strategy is to not do it by yourself. I have a personal philosophy especially that is relating to Web 3.0 where we’re kind of all in it together, it’s community-based, it’s team-based, and the people that will be successful are the ones who learn how to work together in the most effective ways. So you have the artists, you have the director of the project, because if you’re a writer, you don’t wanna be doing dev, you don’t wanna be doing marketing decisions, you don’t wanna be working with the artists to get the art right like you wanna write, you’re a writer.

Introduction: Welcome to the Become a Writer Today Podcast with Bryan Collins. Here, you’ll find practical advice and interviews for all kinds of writers.

Bryan: NFTs for writers, are they a scam? And if not, how can you get involved? Hi, there. My name is Bryan Collins. Welcome to the Become a Writer Today Podcast. Did you know that NFT was the Collins Dictionary word of the year for 2021? No, I’m not involved with the dictionary but, like many people, I was fascinated by NFTs during the year 2021 and into 2022. 

At first, I thought they were nothing more than pixelated images that people were spending an obscene amount of money on. But I quickly discovered that a lot of NFTs are more than that. They’re passes for digital communities, they’re a way of getting access to your favorite creator, and they enable creatives to connect with each other. They’re also a new and emerging content format. And while many are rightly skeptical of a lot of NFT projects and while many will go to zero, a few NFT projects, like the CryptoPunks, are here to stay. That said, the CryptoPunks sells for six and seven figures so it’s out of reach of most investors and buyers. 

What’s more, how is a writer supposed to get involved in something that looks like a pixelated image of a punk or an ape on the blockchain? That’s what I wanted to find out. To learn how NFTs worked, I created my own NFT on OpenSea which is the NFT marketplace and I connected it to my Ethereum wallet. I didn’t try and sell the NFT, it was basically something that I created just to figure out how the whole process worked. And I quickly found that much like self-publishing a book, anyone can create an NFT but selling it and finding an audience is much harder. In other words, you can put trash up on an NFT marketplace but that doesn’t mean people are going to buy it.  Similarly, you can take a book and self-publish it on Amazon but that doesn’t mean people are going to buy it either. 

So, I bought a few NFTs from some well-known projects because I wanted to learn more about the space and the communities and I couldn’t quite get over the engagement that takes place in the Discord communities. I was also disappointed to find the space is rife with scammers. And, in fact, if you’re going to buy an NFT, remember that a lot of them can go to zero and if you are going to get into the space, you really do need to protect your assets with a hardware wallet and also be wary of people who get in touch with you. That’s something I talk about in this week’s episode with Jessica Artemisia. She is a science fiction and fantasy author and also the creator of The Sovereigntii which uses NFTs on a blockchain as a new form of storytelling community and income. 

Jessica is one of the few writers that I’ve talked to so far who’s using NFT successfully as part of her writing career so I wanted to find out how she’s doing it and how writers can get involved today. My key takeaway from talking to Jessica is that we’re still incredibly early so if you find some of the language, terminology, and steps to buying NFTs confusing, don’t worry, you’re not alone. But now’s a good time to learn about the space because NFTs are here to stay for creatives. And it’ll be interesting to see how writers and authors use NFTs in future years to connect with their fans and their readers. 

Now, I hope you enjoy this interview with Jessica. If you do, please consider leaving a review on the iTunes store. You can also share the show with other writers because more reviews and more ratings will help more people find the show, and I’m also on Twitter, @bryanjcollins. 

Now, let’s go over to this week’s interview with Jessica. 

Bryan: Jessica, welcome to the show.

Jessica: Thank you very much and it’s a pleasure and an honor to be here. Thank you.

Bryan: I heard about your work on Joanna Penn’s podcast, The Creative Penn, which I’d recommend any writer listen to. And around the time I listened to your interview with Joanna Penn, I was actually going down the rabbit hole of NFTs and Web 3.0 myself and it feels like there’s a disconnect between people who are involved in NFTs and the rest of the world on Twitter. So I was gonna ask you about that but before we do, could you give listeners a bit more of a flavor for who you are?

Jessica: Sure. So I am involved in several projects right now.  My first project that I launched was back in early June of last year and it’s called The Sovereigntii which is a sci-fi and fantasy alternate world and it’s just a text-based written work with NFTs associated with it and using art generated by AI. And then I’m also the writer for the manga of Saiba Gang which is on Solana, which is another blockchain. 

The first one was on Ethereum and then I’m also in Solana doing the manga writing. I’m also currently doing marketing for a project called Gunner Bros which is a play-to-earn game, Gunner Bros and Babes and it’s a nostalgic, retro gaming project that I’m really excited about. And we’re also continuing the launch on The Sovereigntii with a new direction.

Bryan: And so do you write the stories for the NFT projects like The Sovereigntii?

Jessica: Yes. So, for Sovereigntii, I’m the writer. For Saiba Gang, I’m the writer. But also, Gunner Bros has a writer too. He’s actually — this is so cool. I’m really excited about this. He co-authored a book with Brandon Sanderson and he’s a sci-fi author, sci-fi fantasy author, and he’s traditionally published, he has all of that going on and so he’s the author for the lore for the story for Gunner Bros. So I’m not the writer on that one, I’m doing the marketing for that project.

Bryan: So when I got into NFTs, like many people, I saw a lot of pixelated images and I couldn’t quite figure out why this is all images and art, then I started thinking that surely there’s a place for writers in Web 3.0 as well. So, maybe could you describe how a writer can, I suppose, earn a living or get involved in an NFT project or what a writer would do? Because it would seem like something that you would need coding skills or design skills and not necessarily an ability to tell a story. 

Jessica: Yeah, so I think that the best strategy is to not do it by yourself. I have a personal philosophy, especially that is relating to Web 3.0, where we’re kind of all in it together. It’s community-based, it’s team-based, and the people that will be successful are the ones who learn how to work together in the most effective ways. 

So you have the artists, you have the director of the project, because if you’re a writer, you don’t wanna be doing dev, you don’t wanna be doing marketing decisions, you don’t wanna be working with the artists to get the art right, like you wanna write, you’re a writer, right? Having all the other stuff can really take up a lot of space. So one of the main strategies that I recommend is becoming a writer for a project. I think 2022 is gonna see a lot of that, because a lot of projects in 2021 failed because they failed to create meaning and connection between the community and the art. The lore or the story makes that bridge. So, the lore writer or the lore master is a role in projects, like they’re called PFP projects, profile picture projects.

Bryan: Like the CryptoPunks.

Jessica: Exactly, that’s the original one and that’s why they’re like so wild. Everybody wants the original. But, yeah, so profile picture projects are really popular because it’s a business model that works really well on Ethereum, given gas fees and all of this thing. All of this is just a business model that has worked and continues to work. I think there’s other models and I can share that if we have time. So I recommend getting involved with that and then taking a piece. So I got a percent of like an $800,000 drop or $900,000 drop, I got a percent of that. This is more than I would make in two years probably as a best-selling author.

Bryan: That’s fantastic. I mean, I guess there are so many new projects launched every day. Like do writers need to start spending time in Discord communities or on Twitter or where do they go?

Jessica: Yeah, and so that’s the cool thing. So Twitter and Discord absolutely. Networking, finding a community, sharing your writing, and then finding a team to launch with or get hired by. So that’s one way to do it. The other option that people do is mint art or pages or things representing their work but they don’t have to — like they have their writing public and then as their fan base grows, so then fans will buy the NFTs and that’s how it’s monetized, as opposed to like selling the writing, which is — it’s difficult because how do you build demand for something that people have to buy in order to know if they like it? 

And that’s one of the biggest problems for new writers. So I think it’s especially good for new writers to make their work public. Let anybody read it, and then sell NFTs to monetize it. 

Bryan: Okay, so a few things there to kind of delve into. So, go back to the lore. Let’s say there’s an NFT project with 10,000 unique characters or images like the CryptoPunks, for example. Would each one of those characters or images have a backstory or is it that the project as a whole has a story about its place in the metaverse?

Jessica: Yeah, so it’s the project as a whole. One of the fun things about being a loremaster is that — so with Saiba Gang, what I did is I let the community give me the main characters. I’m like, choose one of the NFTs that you bought and tell me the character and I’ll make them a main character. And this is the main character lore prompt. And then I did the side characters and villains lore prompt. And then I did the world-building lore prompt. So the community gave me all of this information and then I took it and turned it into a story.

Bryan: And are the community voting on what they feel is, I suppose, the most appealing bit of information or are you just reviewing all of the submissions in a Discord thread and then working on it yourself?

Jessica: They gave me, I don’t know, hundreds of submissions. I chose my favorite ones and then they voted on those.

Bryan: Okay, makes sense. Because there’s a lot of people in Discord communities, sometimes they’re there for the project, some are scammers.

Jessica: Yeah.

Bryan: Some are interested in the tech, some are just looking for a quick flip, and some are looking for investments. So, in other words, they’re not all writers so I’m sure you got given a lot of junk.

Jessica: Well, no. I mean, only the writers submitted.

Bryan: Oh, okay. 

Jessica: Yeah. 

Bryan: Oh, that makes sense. And then the other way writers can get involved is if they have a project of their own and they want to create an NFT based on it. Are there any authors or writers do you know of who’ve done this successfully? Because when I went down to OpenSea, the NFT marketplace, I was going through the top 100 projects recently, like there’s examples of generative art, music but there was very little from any authors or writers, at least that I was able to recognize.

Jessica: It’s not really authors working on their own, on their own project. There are some on Solana. I’m trying to remember the name, it’s been a while since I looked. I don’t remember the names. But Soul Gods is another one where they have a writer and there’s a lot of lore master roles but there’s not really like an author who is the developer and the creator of the project around their IP.

Bryan: How would a writer or an author or a project lead create an NFT based on something that’s a piece of writing like a book or — like what are they doing that’s worked basically? Is it just something as simple as words on a page that represents part of the book or is it something else?

Jessica: So, there are people that mint pages. I don’t think that’s one of the more standard routes because it’s still an aesthetic medium right now. That’s not always gonna be the case but right now, it’s an aesthetic medium. Also, to go back quickly, like I don’t think there’s any reason why authors can’t create their IP based on their own work and they’re in charge of the whole project. I just don’t see that because there aren’t a lot of writers that are really trying to break in right now. There are some but not as many as artists. 

So artists are the ones really figuring out the business models and networking with people. I really encourage writers to come in and join and figure out who they can work with, what their options are, because they can definitely do that. That’s what The Sovereigntii is. That’s my project. I was doing it by myself originally and it was too much work and I didn’t have enough information. So now I have a team, I have a lot more information, and I can run with it.

Bryan: When I started getting active on NFT Twitter, quickly discovered there’s a disconnect between people who were buying the NFTs and people who were creating them versus artists who have heard of NFTs but think it’s just wrecking their creative projects and their craft and there’s some nasty arguments in some of the Twitter threads. So, what would you say to a writer who’s, you know, quite skeptical of NFTs and thinks that it’s just gonna debase their writing in some way? 

The example I’m thinking of is there was an artist on Twitter who was saying that rather than paying several hundred dollars for an NFT that’s an example of generative art, why shouldn’t this investor or buyer just pay an artist directly instead of purchasing an NFT and then they could own a physical piece of art and it will be less harmful for the environment and it wouldn’t be something that’s just a JPEG that sits on their phone or on their computer.

Jessica: Well, I mean, I think that why don’t they? Why have they not ever, you know? I mean, how do they see the physical piece, right? It could be in a gallery but galleries are, you know, there’s gatekeepers to galleries. It’s like why not? Like you can go ahead and do it and see if people do that. But all the artists I know are making — like, for example, my friend Claire, she’s a disabled woman from Kansas. She would never have an option for like a gallery show in SoHo, but Snoop Dogg collected her art and showed it on Time Square so that’s kind of — your market opens up infinitely and, you know, people, they want the JPEG because it’s expensive to, you know, ship the art, like I’m an artist here in Morocco, I do art too, but the thought of like shipping my art to wherever, like China or, I mean, it’d be $1,000 just to ship the art, you know? 

So there’s artists in Indonesia, there’s artists in Thailand, there’s artists in Kenya, and their whole world, photographers are opening up — oh, it’s opening up so many doors for people around the world. It’s opening up the entire market. Like I was never an art collector. Now I own a piece from an artist who also Snoop Dogg collected. Her least expensive piece is like $12,000 and I have a piece by her. But I would never be an art collector before. It made me an art collector.

Bryan: Yeah, I would say the same for me as well. The other thing that struck me is that if you’re creating a piece of art today and selling it or if you’re writing a book, you get paid for the first sale but you don’t get paid for secondary market sales whereas with NFTs, you do, so you can earn residuals in perpetuity.

Jessica: And you can sell the physical piece and you can sell the NFT separately as originals. There’s no either — you don’t have to, like as Gary Vee, who was the one who onboarded me to this space, he’s like we don’t need to think in terms of either/or, it’s both/and, you know? We have this whole new space, I know artists that have made more in the last six months than they’ve made in 20 years. And that’s the general case. 

There’s a lot of people that are struggling too. It’s not like there’s going to be a market easily found for every single artist. But, you know, the art market has exploded and that means there’s so much more money in it now so a lot more — and there’s no gatekeepers. There’s no middlemen so it’s all going to the artists.

Bryan: That makes sense. The other thing that struck me is that some of these NFTs are passes, in a way. So the image represents the NFT and the NFT actually gives you access to other people involved with the project or an exclusive community or in-person events or — well, at the moment, it’s quite difficult to do in-person events. But the image is just a representation of what the NFT is.

Jessica: And, you know, too, as an artist, you can create a community around you that you’re in contact with every day and that you get to serve and connect with every day and your community connects with your — like people who love your art connect with each other too. So it’s kind of beautiful in that way too. So you’re building your — your buyers become your community and you’re all working together to kind of grow this project because — and that’s another thing that’s really interesting is that they become a buyer in your business, basically. They’re not just a buyer though, they’re an owner.  So they have an incentive also to raise your profile as an artist or as a writer. It’s an owner economy, ownership economy. So instead of consuming and it’s not like consumption and production, it’s everyone’s an owner in varying degrees. There’s an intersection of interests between the writer or artist and their community to elevate the profile and the value of the project.

Bryan: You mentioned the either/or a few moments ago there, Jessica. I thought that was a great point. I came across Damien Hirst’s Currency. Are you familiar with it? 

Jessica: Yeah, I’ve seen it, yeah. 

Bryan: It’s out of the price range of most people. It sold for millions of dollars. But, apparently, the NFTs, the digital versions correspond to 10,000 real world projects locked away in a mysterious vault in London and, at some point, the owners can just burn the NFT, which is like the digital version of destroying it, or they can choose to destroy the real world piece of art. In other words, they’re asking which they feel has more value. 

Jessica: Yeah, right. Right. Wow.

Bryan: I thought that was quite a creative way. To answer the reservation that many artists have about NFTs. Now, that project I think sold for seven figures. But even for buying newly launched or newly minted NFTs today, there’s still quite a barrier of entry. You have to set up a Coinbase account or another exchange, send over your euro or dollars, buy Ethereum, transfer it to a MetaMask wallet, which is a wallet you use to connect to an NFT marketplace, then you have to sign some transactions on your wallet. 

And all of this costs gas which can add up. So, in short, it can cost you a couple of hundred dollars to buy your first NFT. And even when you go to buy your first NFT, that can cost, you know, it’s not cheap. You’re not gonna buy one for $10 or $15. It can cost quite a bit more because of the cost of using the Ethereum blockchain, which you mentioned. So, in other words, like NFTs, do you think they’re prohibitively expensive? And if not, what else could somebody do?

Jessica: Yeah, I don’t because Ethereum is one blockchain and it’s kind of the one that’s been very dominant in 2021 but I think that there are some major contenders in 2022. One of them is Solana which the transaction fee is negligible, maybe like $1 or $2 or something like that. And then there’s Tezos which the transaction fee is like pennies and you can mint on like or on Hic Et Nunc, it’s a really weird spelling, HEN, they call it HEN, the HEN Network. So, I mint for, I don’t know, a couple of pennies and then I sell things for $5.

Bryan: Oh, wow, that’s much more — I haven’t tried that at all. That’s much more accessible and affordable.

Jessica: Yeah, definitely. And what’s cool is that you can sell a page like a poem or anything really, in like — you can sell a thousand of them and each one is $5.

Bryan: And is there demand there? Are the users on those marketplaces?

Jessica: Yeah, and I love actually Tezos. So I’m not a big fan of Ethereum personally. I’m very much about inclusion and especially access for the traditionally excluded geographically and socially and economically and politically. So, to me, one of the reasons I love blockchain is the possibility of a sea change in the way that society is structured and the way that society is currently structured, it’s very rigid in who gets what. It’s very difficult to have — I mean, maybe one person can break through that system but, as a whole, you’re not gonna find — I live in Morocco, for example, you’re not gonna find a whole bunch of Morocco — like a whole category of Moroccans just suddenly changing everything and like becoming rich or whatever because the system is very rigid. But this system changes that. 

And that’s why I’m like not a big fan of Ethereum because it keeps that entrenched with the prohibitive gas fees, gases, the transaction could be $200, could be $300. Ridiculous. That’s why Tezos, Solana, possibly NEAR protocol blockchain, there’s a lot out there. AVAX, which is Avalanche. There’s a lot of other — There are a lot of others that you can mint on and build a following. And Tezos is really amazing because it has — it’s basically like the artist neighborhood in the city and I believe it’s going to be gentrified, but right now, there aren’t like whales on it. The whales are the big investors who spend like $800,000 on Eth. But you do have all of the artists buying from the other artists and the poet’s buying from the artists and the artists buying from the poets and, you know, the poets buying from the poets and you have this amazing crypto writers’ community, which I’m friends with them and it’s so welcoming too. It’s one is — as people in NFTs notice, it’s like it’s the most warm and friendly and open and welcoming community anywhere. I hated being online before I was in the NFT community.

Bryan: So I’m looking, is that the Tezos NFT marketplace?

Jessica: Yeah, exactly right.

Bryan: Yeah. I haven’t heard about ’til you mentioned. Yeah, I’ve used OpenSea a bit. I mean, it’s still incredibly early for the space. I read a news story that said OpenSea had only several hundred thousand users so I’d imagine that’ll change once Coinbase launches their marketplace, which should probably be out at the time of this interview.

Jessica: Oh, and the other thing too is that with AI, it’s another piece that’s really great for writers is that you don’t have to create the art. You can create the writing and then create art with a click and a couple of words that represents your writing.

Bryan: Okay, make sense. Makes sense. So I also came — when I got into this space, I saw a lot of NFT creators in the space using pseudonyms and also using dot eth on their URLs. So what would you say are the reasons that so many people use pseudonyms rather than their real identity?

Jessica: That’s kind of a throwback to crypto. I’m not like the original crypto kind of anonymous, people wanting privacy. If you don’t have a big desire for privacy. I mean, I think if you’re maybe from a traditionally excluded or traditionally like abused group, it might be great to have that separation from that identity so you’re free from that identity. You can have any identity that you want. 

So you’re not kind of like — you’re not stuck with what you’ve been given at birth, the script you were given at birth. You can manifest as anything you want online. And that’s part of the problem because people turn out to be horrible people, trolls and scammers, but you can also be like an octopus or a unicorn, like you don’t have to be like a white woman from the Midwest that’s like middle aged or whatever, you know what I mean? Because those categories, they don’t have to apply. And so for some people, they just don’t feel that those represent them and they don’t wanna carry them with them into that world so, yeah.

Bryan: Yeah, I hadn’t considered that about reinventing yourself online. I thought it was more to do with privacy, I guess.

Jessica: Privacy is a big one, you’re right, though.

Bryan: Keeping people safe if they have lots of investments from scammers. So, the other thing I came across is like a lot of those in the space are using the dot eth addresses. Would you be able to explain what that is?

Jessica: Yeah, so that’s just related to the wallet, a wallet that you use. You can send things to that wallet. So mine is jessartemisia.eth so you can send me crypto, you can send me eth, if you want. Don’t send me NFTs. I don’t know, I’m not gonna look at them, I’m not gonna sell them, you know? Because a lot of scammers also will send NFTs to wallets that like if you try to sell them or if you try to burn them, they interact with the contract and then they just wipe out your wallet. So, anyway, side note. Yeah. So there’s a whole kind of online identity that comes with that. I haven’t dug very deep into that but mostly what I use it for is it’s my Ethereum address so it’s the address for my wallet.

Bryan: Yeah, I was setting up an, yes. It doesn’t seem to be possible, though, to use it as a traditional URL that would go to a site, perhaps I was doing something wrong. 

Jessica: No, it’s just that like Google or whatever, like they just don’t recognize those as domain name servers or whatever. 

Bryan: Yeah.

Jessica: I don’t know the technical. 

Bryan: You also mentioned scammers. So what steps would you recommend people follow to keep themselves safe if they’re gonna get into the space?

Jessica: Yeah, so, first of all, never ever, never ever, ever click a link in a DM on Discord. Just don’t ever. Even if it’s from me, don’t do it. Because it’s not me. Like if you think it’s the owner of Bored Ape Yacht Club, it’s definitely not, no matter. It’s like, even if you think it’s the support, like, let’s say you’re in a project and you have an issue and then someone says — and then a DM shows up, it’s like, “I’m support for this project, let me help you.” They’re not. They’re not support for that project. They’re gonna socially engineer you to give them your seed phrase for your wallet and then take your wallet. 

So never do anything in DMs with people and, you know, your wallet or anything. It’s always good to have a wallet where you keep your valuables, your money, your crypto, and your NFTs, and a wallet, a separate wallet that you mint, which means buy NFTs from. You never quite know — even if the project is legitimate, it could be compromised by an outside party. There’s that. And what else? Be aware of like what kind of projects would be a rug. If you’re trying to be a crypto investor and using NFTs and flipping them, like it’s a wild game, it’s the Wild West, I just wouldn’t recommend doing that. 

But if you are on Tezos and you’re buying and trading on legitimate marketplaces like objkt or HEN or if you’re on Solana, through Olaplex or something like that, you know, and you’re using the marketplaces and, you know, you’re gonna be fine. I’ve been in it for seven months and I’ve never clicked a link — no, I think I might have once and been like, “Oh, what am I doing? Don’t do that.” And I like immediately go back. Just never do that. That’s the main thing. 99 percent of scams happen because someone clicks the link in a Discord because they think it’s Gary Vee’s team talking about a secret mint. It’s not. I guarantee it. 

Bryan: There is no secret mint. What’s HEN? Could you give me the HEN URL again? I’m not familiar with that one either. 

Jessica: Hic Et Nunc Art.

Bryan: Okay, I’ll put the link in the show notes. Thanks.

Jessica: So the link is actually dot art. Oh, and I wanted to mention another thing too is that if you’re looking for a link to a project, go on Twitter, find a verified account that other people you’re following are following and then use their link. Because if you were like, “Oh, I’m gonna go find Collab.Land.” Collab.Land is like one of the bots that they use in Discord to manage communities of NFT holders. 

Anyway, I was just looking for that bot today, I’m like, “I’m gonna Google it,” and then I googled it and then I’m like, Colleb.Land, okay, right. Okay, right. This is the first the very first hit you get on Google is a scam site. I’m like, okay, what am I doing? And then I went to Twitter, I found the right link because I went to Collab.Land Twitter profile and that is where you’re gonna find all your links. Don’t Google any NFT projects or crypto links. Just find them on Twitter.

Bryan: I was the same even for using OpenSea, it’s possible to come onto a project that you think is the actual project and it’s not, it’s just a scam.

Jessica: Exactly right. And, you know, another way to look at a project, especially artists, because a project with like 500 NFTs in it and like 23 owners is obviously a scam if it’s a 10k project and there’s probably thousands of owner, you know? So, you know, they’re not going to mint on some like little tiny separate contract or something like that. 

Bryan: That’s good advice. Jessica, where can people learn more about you or your work or get involved with the projects?

Jessica: Wow, okay. So, I keep a list of all my links on My writing is there, Saiba Gang is there, Sovereigntii, which is kind of in a sleeper mode right now while I launch these other projects. My art is there. So, yeah, I have some manifestos and some PDFs and some poetry and all of those other stuff. So, is where you can find it all.

Bryan: Thanks for your time.

Jessica: Thank you.

Bryan: I hope you enjoyed this week’s episode. If you did, please consider leaving a short review on the iTunes Store or sharing the show on Spotify, Stitcher, or wherever you’re listening. More reviews, more ratings, and more shares will help more people find the Become a Writer Today Podcast. And did you know, for just a couple of dollars a month, you could become a Patreon for the show? Visit or look for the Support button in the show notes. Your support will help me record, produce, and publish more episodes each month. And if you become a Patreon, I’ll give you my writing books and discounts on writing software and on my writing courses.